Interview with New York Red Bulls' Assistant Coach, Bradley Carnell
Bradley Carnell has a unique perspective in playing under Ralf Rangnick at Stuttgart, being a pundit for SuperSport in South Africa to now being Assistant Coach at New York Red Bulls. In this interview, we delve into his experiences under Rangnick and crossing paths with the likes of Helmut Gross, now coaching a high pressing and vertical style of football at the New York Red Bulls, his personal journey as well as the future of coaching in South Africa.
How have you been keeping busy during the lockdown?
We’ve been really busy during the lockdown. It may seem like a time to turn off, take time away or take a back-seat. We’ve been pretty much on the front foot, we’ve implemented an individual development plan to share our reflection of our first two games. We reflected on our first two League games tactically and as a group. Today, a little bit later we will have a big group call with the whole team. We’ve been monitoring our opposition, we’ve been monitoring teams from all over the world. We’ve been talking to staff about different strategies and different formations. We’ve been really busy in that respect, it has been frustrating to not be able to get out there and kick a soccer ball or do all the things we’ve been speaking about, but the players have been amazing, doing their own fitness programs in accordance with our athletic trainers as well as the fitness and conditioning staff. The players have shown a real grit and determination to get through this time to be primed physically and mentally for the restart.
Speaking of tactics, you play a style similar to Ralph Hassenhuttl’s Southampton. Can you expand on your style in general?
Yeah, well obviously the Red Bull concepts of the way we play, high energy, on the front foot defending, ball-orientated defending. Whether it’s Ralph Hasenhuttl or Julian Nagelsmann, everybody you see branching out in the world of football, many coaches have had this education and you have to take it back a little bit to Ralf Rangnick and I think there’s a lot of coaches or players who played under Rangnick and a lot of coaches who have gone onto to use the high energy, ball-orientated and manipulating time and space. We play very tight, very compact so just trying to exploit time and space when we win the ball, when we don’t have the ball or when the ball turns over. We just try to put ourselves into good parts when we don’t have the ball and position ourselves accordingly so when we do have the opportunity for a turnover in transition, we focus on moving forward to catch the opposition unaware and unorganised while finding the most direct route to goal.
Speaking of players that played under Rangnick, you played under him at Stuttgart. How different was it tactically?
Well, it’s funny and I was thinking about this before the call. As a 21 or 22-year-old, you’ve just arrived in the Bundesliga and you’re just playing and getting used to a style of play. You didn’t really think too much tactically. I think even when I was on trial in Stuttgart, the players called me ‘pitbull’ so the DNA that was instilled in me from my footballing upbringing in South Africa, it just had me primed for playing in a certain way. When Ralf Rangnick came to Stuttgart, he kind of spoke my language, you know things that I was doing instinctively were probably tactically on his behalf. I really enjoyed working under Ralf Rangnick and playing under Rangnick because he had a way about him, a good energy, a way with people. We also were able to reap the reward of playing in the UEFA Cup which was the Europa League at that point and really excel pretty well.
How was it as a left-back, focusing on the game in front of you as well as focusing on your anticipation and things like that?
It’s always about being one step ahead of the opposition whether it be physically or mentally. The way we play and the tactical philosophy, they try to prime and put us in a place where we’re one step ahead. You know, we speak a lot about positional awareness in relation to where the ball is. Everything with us is focused on where the ball is. We always work together as a collective and as a unit as we’re a bunch of ball-hunters, putting ourselves in overloads against the opposition that we’re trying to manipulate. We make sure that we instil this attitude and mentality in our players over here as it seems now as I have reflected over the years, it has been something that I did naturally. I think that’s why coaching in a certain way and playing in this way, it seemed like a great step to take a job like this with the Red Bulls.
What is your role in the day-to-day on the training ground as well as in analysis in helping Chris prepare for games?
We have two assistant coaches, we have Chris Armas as the Head Coach then we have CJ Brown and myself as assistant coaches. We also have Preston Burpo as the assistant coach, even with Preston, he is tactically insightful. When we’re all talking about ideas and opinions as well as certain formations and styles of play, we incorporate Preston and Preston’s a really big part of this thing. My role in this season specifically has been dealing with the attacking unit, so coming up with little concepts and designs of play for us to get better in the attacking third and even from a build-up phase. Before games, I will put together the video debriefing our games, as well as planning and preparation for the pre-game analysis for the future opposition. Once I’ve done the debrief of my attacking guys, I would have already shown Chris the video of the upcoming opposition and we chip away at that for a couple of days and present it to the team two to three days before the game. We come up with the tactical plan and concepts for the upcoming game. We have a good way of working to get around the defensive aspect of the game. It’s been a really enjoyable phase for me to have the responsibility of the pre-game analysis in accordance with our analytics guys.
We get in there nice and early or we discuss the day before about the next day and we just come up with different concepts based on what I’ve seen through the video preparation that I’ve been doing, organising and planning training, We speak about development and growth under the leadership and guidance of Chris, each of us has taken on a more responsible role at the club, really honing in and developing as coaches. It also gives us the freedom and confidence to go and present something, it’s something I believe in. I always speak about who I am and who we are as people as well as the culture of this concept as there has to be full dedication to playing this way. That comes from the coaching staff in alignment to that style of football as it is an easy fix when we talk about training, game ideas, preparation. It always boils back down to the person and it’s really fun working for this club for sure.
Talking about your New York Red Bulls specifically, your second goal against FC Cincinnati to open the season perfectly describes your football where you switch in between phases?
Yeah, for sure, really on the front foot, forcing teams into corridors of uncertainty and then just being ready to pounce and catch teams unorganised. That’s a real and original Red Bull sequence. There are also issues with the opposition in how the bypass the press, are they trying to play over the press or through the press, so it does become more and more challenging every year. When teams start building up from the back, we roll up our sleeves and invite the challenge. Teams are really going to play their way and we’re going to play our way, we can always go very high and implement the high press. We’ve been working on a lot of new other concepts this offseason, trying to get better, not just being an all-out press all the time. At times, we might accept a little bit of pressure, absorb a little bit pressure.
In that first goal, you lose possession in build-up, your centre-back regains it and you work a vertical situation on one side to switch to your right-back on the other side. Is that something you try to do especially with Kyle Duncan as your right-back?
I was a left winger as a player, scoring all the goals and they put as a left back and I was really upset about it. Even back then, there was this talk about fullbacks being the next generation of influential positions on the field. Getting a player willing to do the hard yards, running the lines up and down. Kyle Duncan is a good example of that, Duncan is a player who can run for days, you put him through a series of drills and there will not be a drip of sweat. He’s a player who really likes to get forward when the ball turns over, the way we, I don’t want to give away too many terminologies or tactical nuances. But when the ball turns over for sure, we want to look forward, we have a concept of the first pass forward, we want to find the open space, we want to operate our players in advanced areas ahead of the ball and we want to find players who are unopposed. That’s where we are at our most dangerous and now we are working at causing transition out of possession, we try to get these concepts going, how can we move the ball quickly in the possession phase, moving the ball into a certain area of the field to get to the goal quickly.
It is about replicating a transitional moment, the moment with Kyle Duncan can be tricky in how far he can get ahead of the ball, I don’t like my fullbacks to get ahead of the ball when the ball is on the other side. If we lose the ball and our counter-press is slightly late and we don’t do a good job of the counter-pressing, teams will hurt us on that side as well. We always have to be in a good vicinity of the opposition but always ready to be on the front foot. Always asking questions like if I take a half a step past your shoulder, can I recover? If we make it through from two quick series of passes, can I exploit a space and get behind the opposition? It’s a game of cat and mouse, it’s calculated risk, it’s risk management but we find it very rewarding for sure.
In between your Stuttgart years and moving to New York Red Bulls, how frequently were you in contact with Ralf Rangnick? Were you constantly chatting about football and things like that?
No, I wouldn’t say it was a constant, but I know Ralf Rangnick always had a keen affection for South Africa and Cape Town. There were a few occasions where I flew down there to visit him when I was living in Johannesburg. If you look at the whole Stuttgart organisation back then, there were a lot of people involved with scouts and assistant managers in the administration department. When Ralf moved on in his career and then to Leipzig, he took certain people with him. The people he assigned himself with at Leipzig, were the people I knew from Stuttgart. It’s not specifically only Ralf Rangnick who was my only contact, I also knew Jochen Schneider, Wolfgang Geiger and Helmut Gross. There was a lot of people involved in the Stuttgart movement who went further on to develop at other clubs. Again, I’m just grateful for getting the opportunity to work for an organisation like this.
Obviously, the history and tradition, it could span for many years, but you always have to do your part. I think everyone’s just doing their part to make this football concept a very successful one. It’s not just the people I think.
Helmut Gross comes up a lot when you read about the tactical history of German football and the development. Could you expand on him a bit?
He’s like the wise professor, he’s like Mr Miyagi from the Karate Kid. He really is the assessor on the sidelines. One word you can use about him is passion, he’s so passionate about the concepts he’s applying with regards to this philosophy, him being one of the main drivers behind this concept. It’s evolving now slightly with Julian Nagelsmann’s flavour of the Red Bull concept, but Gross is really the true godfather with Ralf Rangnick. As you look into their mentors. When you speak to Ralf Rangnick, his biggest mentor is Valeriy Lobanovskyi. When you speak to him, he speaks about Lobanovskyi and I was amazed when he used to speak about watching Lobanovskyi training sessions.
There was a training session at a facility in his local town and he went to watch Lobanovskyi’s training. Rangnick always felt there was an extra man defending on the field of play. It looked like Lobanovskyi’s teams always had an extra man on the field of play. The way teams defended it seemed like they had a man advantage all the time.
This got Rangnick into the thought process. It’s just what he was watching and through his passion and his footballing brain, he was drawn to this way of playing so it sparked a keen interest. Now you find people along the line, down the generations and coaches who have had that inner passion or that inner desire about playing a certain way. It’s actually a successful concept as coaches are able to thrive under the style of playing. Head Coaches would now want to put their own flavour on the philosophy and find their own way a little bit but within the realms and guidelines of the Red Bull way.
Jurgen Klopp came up with the quote that pressing is the best playmaker. Your team tend to create chances off pressing situations whether you’re waiting for the opposition to move the ball across the back or directly press.
When Jurgen Klopp was at Dortmund, his team pressed through a systematic approach being part of the defensive action or defensive chain. When you turned over the ball, your players were in a natural position to be really aggressive in getting to goal. It put their playmakers in areas of the field that when they got the ball, they were unmarked because the other team had opened up for the possession phase. Even Klopp has developed and found a new approach to his all-out pressing scheme, they do operate differently at Liverpool. It is about manipulating the space that the opposition is moving the ball into and it is about pressing collectively as if one player does not do his job, his system will fail hence the concept of the system will be the playmaker because the system forces the turnover, forces the transition and now puts our players in a better position to excel with their decision making. It’s a real dedication and a real commitment to getting forward to end up in the opposition final third as quickly as possible.
People misunderstand with the Red Bull franchises that there’s no overall tactical model other than game principles and ideas that you can build on. There’s always the opportunity to innovate, right?
You can offer your nuances for sure and build on principles and a style of play. A style of play can speak in a formation in a 4-2-3-1, 4-4-2 or any formation you’re playing. Principally if you have certain characteristics and our philosophy in mind, you can adapt to the style of play. Some formations are a bit tricky to press high up than other formations, but we have a terminology, our language and our concepts. Principles are the most important thing, we coach it and we grind it into our players and we enjoy getting the new guys and going through the brainwash process of believing in this system and knowing the benefits of it. Within those principles, how do they find their own flavour and Red Bull was never fully focused on ball-possession.
But if you look at Leipzig, there is a little bit of both, they really play expansive football and really embrace having the ball as opposed to not having the ball. Their commitment when they lose the ball, you can see their real and true identity, as you saw against Tottenham, the true identity of a Red Bull philosophy. It’s interesting to see and study the different ways of the approach of Julian Nagelsmann and it’s something that we, even the Head Coach has visited Leipzig and gone through that and spoken to Julian. Even we’re expanding and explore different avenues of how to manipulate the opposition, not only without the ball, how can we manipulate them with the ball now. It’s an ever-evolving process but always keeping the core fundamentals in place.
Peter Bosz has this quote ‘Intelligent players anticipate, unintelligent players react. If you think faster, you are always faster on the field. If you react you are always too late. Know what’s going to happen not what’s already happen.’ Does that describe what you’re trying to do?
Yeah, I think it describes us a football team. Trying to be proactive instead of reactive. We try to be more in-tune with the game and move with what’s happening in the game. Put ourselves on the front foot and try to force turnovers up the field. We always try to take that approach.
Through training sessions where we have limited time and space, we are giving our player repetitions of being in pressurised situations and forced to make decisions under pressure and find solutions in various gae situations whether in possession of the ball or playing against the ball, which is our primary focus.
You did Punditry on SuperSport and you were always the guy with more tactical insight, you were standing by the touchscreen always moving players?
The touchscreen that never worked (laughs). When I was working in South Africa on television, trying to give the viewers a little bit more tactical insight. Not speaking around the topic, I really wanted to get into the topic. How could we give the viewer the insight into the mind of a footballer when he has the ball or when he doesn’t have the ball. I took on that role, I tried to bring my expertise to the forefront there, helping the viewer who might not be as tactically astute or aware of what’s going on. I tried to bring my sort of sharp and focus when I was preparing for those games on television and that was a way of keeping me prepared. At that time, I was coaching students and I wasn’t really in the professional game yet, those things came later on. It was preparation for me as these things were building blocks of looking at where to next, where’s the next step for me. I always just tried to use that to my best, I wouldn’t just use it as a television appearance, I always tried to maximise the benefit of it. You know whether it would be me focusing on the tactics of the game or just me developing further as a coach.
African viewers really crave tactical insight and you were the beginning of that. At SuperSport did you get feedback that this was the case?
Yeah, sure. People were grateful for sure, people also like big stars on the television. We had to find a good balance and I thought John Barnes did an excellent job breaking it down tactically as well as he has a good understanding of the game. There’s a lot of people who were on the show that came from a footballing background, Sammy Kuffour was another good one. He played the game at a high level and had a great name. I just needed to find my niche and market so that’s where I focused on. For sure, I think the people were grateful for a different angle and trying to explain the tactical game. You know, how I’ve grown and developed, I think I would be approaching those TV sessions slightly differently, even in the last couple of years with the Red Bulls, I’ve grown immensely as I’ve always understood the tactical part of it. I also understand why we do these things and that’s been the big question, I jumped ahead of my development to the further stages.
After your experience in punditry at SuperSport, you got a coaching role at Orlando Pirates. How did you find that experience?
Before that I was at Free-State Stars which is also in the PSL and I spent a couple months there under an Italian coach, Giovanni Solinas. Then I joined Muhsin Ertugal, a Turkish-German coach, really insightful and a really good tactical coach. Very highly strung, very emotional but it was an amazing time working for one of the biggest clubs in Africa. The following, the passion for the club, the skull and bones. I got to play for Kaizer Chiefs which is the other big club in South Africa and then work for Orlando Pirates and then for me to be involved in working for those two clubs who aren’t really typically fond of each other now working for both of them on two different platforms was almost a dream come true, you know, being involved with Pirates. I always said my time at Kaizer Chiefs was too short as when I signed for them, I moved to Stuttgart in Germany, I signed for Pirates and move again. It was almost two little flirts with big clubs in terms of South African culture and South African history, those are clubs where you would like to spend a lot longer, but I always said I want to be at the best possible platform for me as a person and as a coach. I always call them building blocks, hopefully we’ll see where our road takes us but I end up at the best club possible as I find myself at the Red Bulls and I’m really having a great time.
Rulani Mokwena is a rising young manager in South Africa, did you have a chance to interact with him at Pirates or in any other fashion?
Rulani, yeah, he was a protégé of Pitso Mosimane and I obviously came up against him a few times when he was assistant coach at Mamelodi Sundowns. He’s a real guy who doesn’t just rely on a copy and paste system, he tries his own way and he’s finding his own way at the moment. Yeah, I think he’s one of the young coaches who believe in a modern approach to the game, the tactical approach to the game. I’ve enjoyed following his progress, he was unfortunately thrown into the Lion’s den, taking on the Head Coaching role at Pirates for a while but he’s gone out on his own now and only time will tell about him as a coach regarding his tactical way and philosophy as well as the modern approach to the game. I think the world is his oyster, he’s a really passionate coach. I hope he succeeds because in South Africa, we need a coach who is a younger guy coming in to really set the scene alight. Benni McCarthy came in at Cape Town City and he did a great job with them, Rulani Mokwena I think he’s highly educated with his coaching expertise and he’s had the best platform to learn and to grow. It’s only a matter of time before big things come from him, Fadlu Davids as well is another coach, a young up-and-coming. If you always look at a young up-and-coming coach, you always have to go one-step further back, what were his roots and who did he look up to. Now, it’s up to them to find their own way.
The MLS has gotten younger as you’ve been there, can you explain the shift with players coming through the academies since you’ve been with the Red Bulls?
If you look at the Red Bull concept, you look at having the best academy and producing the best players through the USL League which is the Second Division here. Clubs are realising that investing in the academies pays dividends, even thinking back to Tyler Adams where he started or Sean Davis, we have a whole core of guys in our first team who stem from the academy. Now seeing how it benefits as a whole to the club and to the league, you think about Atlanta, Sporting Kansas City as you think about even the expansion teams offer younger players, possibly giving them a chance from South America to come and put their skills on a platform here. It’s a difficult one because when players finish at the University their 23 or 24 and in world football, they’re getting older whereas a young player like Cristian Casseres from Venezuela comes into our USL side and really thrives there with sort of football fundamentals and has now become a fully-fledged member of our team playing week in and week out.
We really thrive on young people because young people are hungry for success, they are athletically still building up to their prime, they can run for days and can understand the concepts easier. With us developing these youngsters, we can get to our products easier than we do with old season pros. It’s going in the right direction now as clubs are seeing the reward of reducing money on their books as well as playing at a more successful level, really being able to have a spin-off effect refunding their academies with the sales of players, the upside of these development incentives is there for sure.
What is the New York youth football scene like with academy-level, high school level and collegiate level?
I’m not too sure, all I know is that it’s tough with the distances to cover getting into the city to make training. It’s really difficult for kids working with different other sports, there’s a lot of other teams involved here within the New York area. It’s not an easy for sure by any means but there is a community of coaches and a community of clubs that are committed to having a relationship with us in some form or fashion. It’s just about the networking and talent identification to which our scouts, we have regional scouts and youth development programmes so we’re trying to do our bit to engage with communities and take the football to them instead of them coming to us. We have summer camps and other events where every once in a while, there is a diamond of rough, for sure that’s where the club has put infrastructure in place to take football to the club and believe in the identity of developing a soccer player.
South Africa is similar to America in the way football is not the main sport, you have Rugby and Cricket, in America you have Baseball, American Football and Basketball. How do you navigate that as a player in South Africa and as a coach in America?
With soccer, it’s always a constant struggle of trying to be the number 1 sport and engage more with the public, engage more with youth soccer programs, engage more with the parents of these youth soccer programmes, that speaks volumes. I don’t know how long it will be with soccer getting to a number 2 or number 1 level. It’s always going to be tricky, we always have to do our business to make soccer as sexy or as interesting as possible. In the youth programmes the kids are always playing soccer, even when I look out the window, I always see kids playing soccer but the older they get, that’s where it starts to slip away.
What are your career goals in management?
Career goals is to work at the best possible platform for me and my family. For me, it’s all about the family, career goals you speak about short term success and long-term rewards. Short term success is working a higher level with the New York Red Bulls and trying to win titles and cup competitions, the ultimate goal is the MLS Cup. Winning the Supporters Shield in 2018 is a big success for the club and for me as an assistant coach, everybody feels their value doing that part in setting the team up for success. Long term goals whether I want to take on the role of a Head Coach and independently drive my passion and desire in a way, maybe having small different nuances in developing as a coach on my own at some point.
Working at the best possible platform has always been my driving force, at the moment, I’m feeling really happy and I’m challenged here every day to bring out the best of myself. I feel really one with this club, I’ve won so many friends and friends for life by working in this club. I’m grateful for being at this club, we have to look at the short-term success and short-term now with this situation we’re facing, we don’t know where the future will take us and what will a soccer framework look like and how will it look like geographically and economically. These are questions to be answered, we’re just ready for any challenge at any time.
